Israel and the Global Strategic Environment: A Conversation with Caroline Glick

Michael Doran:

Hi, I’m Mike Doran. I run the Middle East Center here at the Hudson Institute, and it’s my great honor and pleasure to host Caroline Glick. Caroline, you are the International Affairs Advisor to Prime Minister Netanyahu.

Caroline Glick:

Mm-hmm.

Michael Doran:

Before that, you were a very well-known podcaster and journalist. I know this very well because I have a podcast with Gadi Taub and people, which services part of your audience. And they always write in the comments, “You guys are good, but we really miss Caroline. We need Caroline to explain everything to us.”

I’m answering all of them, and here you are. We’ve brought you out of the cone of silence of the Prime Minister’s office to answer all of those people out there who want you to explain what’s going on in the world. But anyway, welcome. It’s wonderful to have you.

Caroline Glick:

Thank you, that’s very kind of you. Thank you.

Michael Doran:

It’s not me. All those comments, they’re like daggers to me.

Caroline Glick:

Daggers? You should just say, “I’ll never be Caroline. I’ll always be Michael.”

Michael Doran:

That’s true.

Caroline Glick:

You just have to be your best version of yourself.

Michael Doran:

I’ll just be my best version of myself, but I’ll never, ever, ever live up to Caroline Glick. No, really, it’s wonderful to have you here.

Caroline Glick:

Thank you.

Michael Doran:

So what brings you to Washington?

Caroline Glick:

I do a lot of work here, and so I came to do a lot of work.

Michael Doran:

You’re going to tell us, is it going to be like this with the whole interview? Am I going to have to squeeze information out of you?

Caroline Glick:

No, I work on a number of issues with the Prime Minister and with members of Congress who I was very happy to brief about the situation in Syria yesterday, and our concerns and interests and hopes and dreams.

Michael Doran:

Okay. Let’s start with Syria then, since you mentioned it. Why don’t you give us your sense of what’s happening in Syria?

Caroline Glick:

Well, I mean the Prime Minister, he always likes to quote or appropriate the quote of Ronald Reagan about the Soviets where he said, “Trust but verify.” And he makes a little bit of a change with the new Syrian regime where he says, “Distrust and verify.”

And so we have our concerns about the Druze and the humanitarian situation there. They’re more or less under a quasi-siege, and we’re concerned about their humanitarian conditions, and the fact that not enough food and water and electricity and medicine are getting through. They’re not getting paid if their civil servants were concerned about their welfare. They went through a horrific massacre, really, of the dimensions of October 7 and July at the hands of their fellow Syrian citizens, Bedouins, who were supported in many cases by the regime. And Israel was able to come in and stop it by bombing the convoys on the way to slaughter and the Defense Ministry in Damascus. And we’ve been keeping a very close eye on ever since because our brothers in Israel are the Druze of Israel. And our brethren, the Druze of Israel, view the Druze of the Suwayda province in southern Syria as their brothers. And so they’re our cousins, and we are taking care of them and we’re concerned about their welfare, and we’re also wanting to make sure that Syria doesn’t pose a threat to Israel anymore.

The Prime Minister and the Defense Minister and the Foreign Minister, Heads of the Army and the Shin Bet were in the border town on the Syrian side of the border of Qatar yesterday to assess the situation there. And that was because we care and we want to make sure that Syria and the border zone in Syria doesn’t pose a threat to Israel going forward. We have a doctrine post-October 7, which is no hostile forces on our border, so it’s important to us that southern Syria not be militarized, and we’re seeing some concerning aspects of what the new regime is doing. So we’re distrusting and we’re verifying, and we like to share our concerns with our American allies because we know that our concerns are also shared by them so it’s important.

Michael Doran:

A few weeks ago before Sharaa came to Washington, I saw in the Israeli press for sure, but also I heard from some Israelis who I thought were well-informed, that as well as others non-Israeli, that you and the Syrians were really close to an agreement. And it led me to believe that when Sharaa came, there was actually going to be an announcement of an agreement, but then there wasn’t any such thing. And now I’m hearing ongoing concerns. Was there a sense that you were close to an agreement? How far apart are you?

Caroline Glick:

It’s like the Texas two-step: one forward, two back. I mean, we’ll see, but we’re engaged. We have made our expectations clear. It’s not the Persian shuk. There are certain red lines that we’re not only not going to cross, we’re not going to get near. So we hope that we’ll be able to reach an accommodation with them. That’s our hope. And part of reaching an accommodation that’s stable is ensuring that our concerns are met.

Michael Doran:

Is your sense you’re very close, that you just, a couple of issues have to be ironed out, or is there really still some distance to go?

Caroline Glick:

I don’t know, I don’t want to characterize it. I’m not involved in those negotiations, so I don’t want to characterize something that I don’t have direct knowledge of, but I do have direct knowledge of our concerns, which is what I was sharing with our American colleagues this week.

Michael Doran:

When you think of a corridor to Suwayda, are you thinking of a corridor that will be guaranteed by Israel, or will it be guaranteed by international actors by the regime itself?

Caroline Glick:

Well, I think that the Druze of Suwayda and of Southern Syria and also the Christians of the area, there are about 40,000, 50,000 Christians who also live in the Suwayda province. I think they’ve all expressed their trust in us and their desire to be working with us, and so we’re going to be working to guarantee their security and safety regardless of how it’s done. But that to us is the main thing that we’re not going to allow something like the July massacre to recur.

Michael Doran:

Let’s move to Gaza, which is on everybody’s mind. What can you tell us about the reaction in Jerusalem to the Security Council resolution and steps moving forward?

Caroline Glick:

I think we support Trump’s 20-point plan. There are obviously aspects of it that are absolutely, have to be implemented, the most important one being the disarmament and the dismantlement of Hamas, and assuring that Gaza won’t pose a threat to Israel again. And so those are, I think it’s point 13 in the plan, and we’re focused on that because that’s what assures Israel’s continued security and survival. The plan also makes clear that our deployment in Gaza, it’s around 53 percent of the territory, is to guarantee that that happens. It envisions the plan, which is ensconced obviously in the UN Security Council resolution that was passed last week. That plan is a way for us to achieve our war goals without continuing the war. But the plan also assures that in the event that they can’t be achieved, it’s not through the International Stability Force or Security Force that’s supposed to founded there.

As President Trump has said repeatedly, then we’ll just finish off the job. The main Hamas forces in the 47 percent of Western Gaza along the coast, it’s a job to dismantle and disarm them. And it can be done as President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu said repeatedly, it can be done the hard way or the easy way, and that’s really up to Hamas to decide. But we’re determined to ensure that the goal is achieved in full. I mean, I think nobody can question that Israel is correct in its assessment that our national security requires that. So I mean, I think we feel comfortable with it. We feel comfortable with the resolution largely because it’s President Trump, the best president that we’ve ever had in the White House in terms of the best friend that Israel’s ever had in the White House by far, and we know that he shares our commitment to achieving those goals.

Michael Doran:

What can you tell us about the composition of the ISF?

Caroline Glick:

I don’t know, it’s a work in formation. One of the countries that we’ve been looking at is your favorite or second fave, I don’t know, Azerbaijan.

Michael Doran:

Isn’t Azerbaijan everyone’s favorite?

Caroline Glick:

Well, I haven’t gone on vacation there yet, but it’s on the top of my list.

Michael Doran:

It should be.

Caroline Glick:

Right after a lot. Yeah, so we’ll see.

Michael Doran:

So Azerbaijan, you’re expecting to see Azerbaijan-

Caroline Glick:

We’re hoping that. We’re hoping. And there are some other countries. I don’t want to, I know you want details, but I don’t want to say something. And then people get cold feet because, “Oh, Caroline, just jumped the gun with Mike Doran.”

Michael Doran:

No, no, I understand exactly. I have to push you a little bit to see what I can get, but I don’t want you to say anything that you don’t want to say. But the fact that you’ve confirmed Azerbaijan, I was hearing that around and seeing it in the press as well.

Caroline Glick:

I can confirm that we’re hoping that they’ll join.

Michael Doran:

Yeah. Of course. Let’s talk a little bit about, I noted not just that you mentioned Azerbaijan, but that you also mentioned it favorably. And so I want to take the opportunity for those people. There are many Americans who are insufficiently acquainted with the wonders of Azerbaijan, so I want you to help us understand why you see it as favorably as you do.

Caroline Glick:

Well, I mean, we have a close relationship with Azerbaijan, and we have for decades. They’re a major supplier of energy to Israel, among other things. And we enjoy good relations with the Azerbaijanis. They’re moderate in their lifestyles and in their creed, and they’re definitely not at all sympathetic to jihadists of the ilk of Hamas. And so from that perspective, they fit the bill because you can’t have forces inside of Gaza that are supportive of Hamas, that are supportive of Jihad, that are not supportive of the continued existence of the state of Israel. And so when you talk about how to comprise a force that has to be a force that’s willing to actually confront Hamas, and to confront Hamas, to have a chance of being willing to confront Hamas. You first have to be of the position that they can’t continue to be armed, to be a regime in Gaza to hold power in any way, shape, or form in that area. So when you have that as a base condition for joining, then I think that sets you on a course for success.

Michael Doran:

Of course, the Azerbaijanis, when you talk to them, they say that their big brother is Turkey, and their best friend is Israel, and they want their brother to get along with their friend. So I would think that from an Israeli point of view, one of the advantages here too is that the Azerbaijanis want to play a constructive mediating role with the Turks.

Caroline Glick:

I think that’s more your hope, right? I know that that’s your hope, Mike, but.

Michael Doran:

My hope springs eternal.

Caroline Glick:

Well, at a certain point, hopes are wonderful, but they sometimes crash on the shoals of reality, so we’ll have to see. My boss always says that a good day is when Erdogan only curses him and accuses him of being Hitler three or four times a day, but now it’s up to several times an hour. So we’re not on good days right now with Ankara.

Michael Doran:

Right.

Caroline Glick:

They’re calling for the recomposition of the caliphate that he wants to lead, and they always managed to mention that the caliphate included Jerusalem as well as Al-Quds in Syria, and I think and Jordan and lots of other countries in the region who all have to be concerned. But since it seems personal with him about Israel, then we’re particularly concerned.

Michael Doran:

Are you concerned about the talk, especially in the Turkish press, about having a presence in Gaza? You must be.

Caroline Glick:

We’re not concerned, it’s not going to happen.

Michael Doran:

Absolutely not going to happen.

Caroline Glick:

No.

Michael Doran:

Of any kind?

Caroline Glick:

No. I mean, no. Look, there are Turkish NGOs that operate in Israel, so to the extent that they’re problematic in Israel, they’re problematic, but they’re already operating some of them in Gaza, and they have been throughout so I think that that’s a different kind of issue. But in terms of military forces, no.

Michael Doran:

What about a liaison office of some sort?

Caroline Glick:

No. I mean, what kind of liaison? What are you talking about? What do you want?

Michael Doran:

What do I want?

Caroline Glick:

What do you want?

Michael Doran:

No, I have no Doran plan for Gaza. I’m just trying to-

Caroline Glick:

But what do you mean by liaison office?

Michael Doran:

Well, I heard, a little birdie told me that.

Caroline Glick:

Was it your left node? Your left lobe, I mean.

Michael Doran:

A little birdie told me that there are significant actors on the American side who are pushing for a liaison office. That’s what I heard.

Caroline Glick:

I don’t want to speak to details, but the Americans are very well aware and very respectful of our position.

Michael Doran:

Of your position.

Caroline Glick:

I mean, I think, look, you can’t have, yesterday the news came out that the Mossad had broken up on Europe-wide cells of Hamas terrorists that were planning attacks all over the continent, right? And they were directed out of Turkey and Qatar. I mean, if you want to have Hamas operatives operating out of Turkey, and you can’t be taken seriously when you say that you’re going to disarm them. I mean, they’re directing terrorist attacks. We had a terrorist attack by where I live, just very close to my neighborhood in Gush Etzion. You had one man brutally murdered and three wounded, yes, two days ago, and it was directed out of Turkey.

And so it’s true that they’re a NATO ally, and it’s true that they have close relations with the United States, and that’s great, but they don’t have great relations with us. And it’s not because of Israel. Israel is not calling for conquest of Turkey. I mean, we just stopped going there as tourists. That’s the best you’re going to get from us. We have no feelings of negativity towards the Turks, but when we see the way that we’re hated there, okay, we get it. No, you can’t come here. You’re going to send forces.

Michael Doran:

I didn’t hear this from any birdies, but I read in the press that we’re also considering Pakistani forces. Is that a possibility? Which surprised me.

Caroline Glick:

I don’t know, I don’t know that that’s the case.

Michael Doran:

Let’s move to Iran and the state of play there.

Caroline Glick:

Yeah.

Michael Doran:

Give us your sense of assessment of the aftermath, now that the dust has settled and we know what happened in Operation Rising Lion and Midnight Hammer. What’s the lay of the land as you see it?

Caroline Glick:

Look, I think that one of the things that we’re seeing both post Operation Rising Lion and Midnight Hammer, and what we saw for decades previous to that, is when Iran, like Hamas, like its other proxies, Hezbollah, the Houthis and the rest of them. When they dedicate themselves to jihad, when they dedicate themselves to the eradication of Israelis, it’s not just words. It’s a crazy thing to see. Gaza is rubble. It’s a horrible mess. And instead of thinking about how do we fix this, they think about how do we reorganize to kidnap Israeli soldiers and to kill them. This is not a mindset that it’s easy for somebody who values life to understand.

And in Iran, I read a news report I think a couple of days ago that over the past, maybe since the beginning of the year, 900 people, 900 Iranian citizens have been hanged.

Michael Doran:

Right.

Caroline Glick:

Have been killed by hanging. That’s like three a day. Can you imagine that? It boggles the mind. What kind of regime is this? And in the meantime, they have to evacuate Tehran because they don’t have water. And all of their resources go to ballistic missiles and nuclear uranium enrichment facilities that they spend billions and billions of dollars building inside of mountains. This isn’t a regime that’s going to change. This isn’t a regime that’s going to have what our evangelical friends would refer to as a come to Jesus moment and say, “Okay, wait, we made a mistake. Let’s change our ways. Let’s not do this anymore, let’s care about our people instead of murder them.”

So what we’re seeing after the June war is very much what we saw before, is that they don’t care about their own people. They don’t care about their welfare, they don’t care about their drinking water. They don’t care about anything. All they want to do is rebuild, and to make big noise and big news about how are they going to get the precursors for this, or the things that you need to build nuclear or rebuild their factories for their ballistic missiles.

So you look at it and Israelis, we’re thinking how do we rebuild the mess? Where do we put the people whose apartments were blown up in Tel Aviv and in Rehovot? Weizmann Institute is raising millions and millions of dollars to rebuild their facilities. That’s we want to rebuild what fell, what was destroyed. And they’re thinking about how do we rebuild our missiles? I guess that’s because that’s what was destroyed because we didn’t destroy any buildings, we only destroyed their installations and their personnel. So maybe that’s why, maybe everybody wants to rebuild what was destroyed and they mainly targeted civilian targets, but I don’t think that that’s it. I think that they remain fixated and obsessed on their single goal of destroying Israel. When they’re done with us, God forbid, they go to you.

That’s what’s so remarkable about it all. You see it over, and over, and over again. That that’s why what the Prime Minister says is true. We are the front line of civilization’s fight against barbarism. We just are because these people are not changing.

Michael Doran:

In terms of rebuilding, to you see them rebuilding on the nuclear front and the ballistic missile front simultaneously, or have they prioritized one over the other?

Caroline Glick:

I can’t comment on that, but I think that you see in the news reports that they’re trying to dig they’re way out of the hole that they have in both of them. So they remain equally important, they remain important, and they’re both existential threats to Israel because they said . . . Who was it? Rafsanjani said that Israel is a “one-bomb country.”

Michael Doran:

Yeah.

Caroline Glick:

But you get 20,000 ballistic missiles that’ll get you pretty far along. So that was what they were looking towards also, is industrial production of ballistic missiles, and by the way ICBMs that can reach this country as well.

Michael Doran:

Right.

Caroline Glick:

But that’s what they were looking towards. And again, 900 people hung since the beginning of 2025 in Iran. Destruction, complete destruction of their natural resources. You look at the pictures from pre-’79, pre-revolutionary Iran and how can you believe it’s the same country? The only people who seem to live happily are the children of the ayatollahs who run around in belly shirts and having raves in the desert, and stuff like that. And the rest of the people live in utter and absolute poverty that it’s unspeakable.

Michael Doran:

This is remarkable, the way the news has come out about the water shortage.

Caroline Glick:

Yeah.

Michael Doran:

And you would think that a regime that just suffered a defeat in war would be mainly concerned about getting water to its population you would think.

Caroline Glick:

You’d think.

Michael Doran:

Yeah.

Caroline Glick:

But apparently, the Islamic Republic of Iran has a different view of things. It’s just sometimes you have to stop and think and say, “Can you get your head around this? Is it possible to understand the mindset that acts this way?” And the answer is thank God, no, we’re not like that.

Michael Doran:

The Assad Regime, when the pro-regime forces were fighting the civil war, they had a slogan which they spray-painted all over the country. Which was, “Assad or we’ll burn the country down.” It is hard for an American mind, which naturally assumes that even an authoritarian government is responsive to public opinion in some way. So the idea that they would actually destroy the country to save the regime, absolutely destroy the country to save the regime is difficult for an American mind to grasp.

Caroline Glick:

Look, it’s exactly the opposite for Americans. It’s exactly the opposite for Israel. You look at the American Revolution, people sacrificed everything for this idea of freedom. That you would give up everything. Almost all the signers of the Declaration of Independence died impoverished, or all of them. And they gave up everything to be free. And here they’re saying, “We’re going to just ruin your life, we’re going to annihilate you as a people.” Look at the refugee crisis in Europe, that it was all Syrian. They were all pushed out. “We’re going to annihilate you, we’re going to destroy you, we’re going to wipe you out of this country one way or another if you don’t accept our tyranny.” That’s the exact opposite.

Michael Doran:

Right after Rising Lion, the reigning assumption, and it was an assumption, but-

Caroline Glick:

The Iranian?

Michael Doran:

No, reigning, reigning.

Caroline Glick:

The reigning assumption.

Michael Doran:

In Jerusalem, I think in Washington too, the dominate view was that Iran’s fissile material was buried under the ground. Lately, there have been a lot of press reports saying that the certainty about that has shifted. Can you give us any sense of that? Is there a new . . . Does the original reigning assumption still hold, or has there been a shift in view?

Caroline Glick:

We’re watching it very, very closely. We watch Iran very, very closely. It’s one of those things to say, “You’re not done yet? You haven’t had enough? You want to go another round? All right, then. Really?” Nobody has walked away from this.

Michael Doran:

Yeah.

Caroline Glick:

And nobody’s going to walk away from this. So I’m not going to speak to any news reports about this, that, or the other. But I will say whatever they may be thinking, are they kidding me? We knew where everybody was. We didn’t miss one target. Let’s just be realistic here about what their prospects are for this.

Michael Doran:

One of the things that I thought was very impressive, and there have been many impressive things the Israelis have done, but one of the most recent ones was the operation against the Houthis. Where, was it the deputy chief of staff of the Houthis?

Caroline Glick:

He is a chief, but I don’t remember.

Michael Doran:

Was it a chief, was it the chief of staff? Was killed. And the Israelis haven’t, as far as I know, they haven’t lost a single drone in Yemen. And the Americans have lost, I lost count, maybe 16. I forget. But a significant number. I wonder if you can give us your assessment of what’s going on between Israel and the Houthis.

Caroline Glick:

We consider the Houthis to be an enormous threat. And it’s one of those things where it’s just not remarked upon because they had this . . . People formed an image of the Houthis, which is totally wrong, but it’s still there. Of these primitive-

Michael Doran:

Ragtags, yeah.

Caroline Glick:

Yeah, ragtag group of people who were a primitive, who don’t know how to, I don’t know, use electricity. This is not true. It’s not true. They are a sophisticated military with an enormous army of ground forces. Hundreds of thousands of people. They have independent production capabilities. Their ballistic missiles are serious. They develop torpedoes. And the shocking thing is that they’re succeeding except for with Israel. They’ve blocked the Bab-el-Mandep to maritime shipping. This is something outrageous. And they’ve sort of been allowed to do that, and I’m not quite clear on why. It’s a huge threat to international peace and security, not just to Israel. It’s an acute threat to Israeli security.

And again, I think one of the things that all of Israel’s enemies have to understand, and our friends as well, is that we’re not messing around here anymore. There’s no, “Well, on the one hand, to be or not to be,” thing going on. We’re not Hamlet anymore. We were Hamlet for a while and what we got was October 7 because we couldn’t figure out whether we were supposed to act assertively against Hamas aggression along the border. We had all of these . . . We were out-thinking ourselves. We had all of these crazy concepts of misperception, and misconception, and misconstrual, and I don’t know what. Instead of just listening to what they were saying, “We’re planning on invading you and killing you,” and then sending thousands of people to the border. Well, what do we think they’re trying to do, Sherlock Holmes? We’re done.

For us, there’s no gray zone. If you’re, whether you’re Turkey, or you’re the Houthis, or you’re whomever you happen to be, you want to try to kill the Jews, it’s not going to work. We’re not going to take it. It’s just not going to happen anymore. So I think that’s really what people have to take seriously is that you want to build up your threat, you want to threaten us with a ground invasion or massively assaulting us with your missiles, we’re smarter than you are. We’re really good at this stuff. We’ve gotten a lot better over the past two years. You can try to mess with us, but we get it and it’s not a joke, and we’re not joking.

So I think that that’s really the main message that everybody just has to understand here, and it’s not about deterrents. I’m not speaking for my boss here because this isn’t talking points, this is just my view. When you’re dealing with people who are eliminationist, who proved that they mean it when they talk about genocide, they have a track record, a horrible one. And again, we just had another one in Judea, in Gush Etzion two days ago. A target of opportunity, “Oh, let’s kill a 70-year-old man and critically wound a 40-year-old woman and a 15-year-old boy because they’re Jews.” Yeah, they’re standing there waiting for a bus. So we get it, all right?

I think that’s the message, that you can’t deter people who will take every opportunity that they have to kill you. Deterrence, everybody likes to talk about deterrence. People get doctorates and post-doctorates in deterrent theory and write all sorts of learned papers about it. But when you’re dealing with people who don’t care about dying, they just want to kill you, the deterrent model is to just be so strong that they can’t hurt you.

Michael Doran:

There is a sense I think, and I’m making a statement but it’s a question, coming out of the war that there still is a path to deterrence. I’m talking about among Israelis.

Caroline Glick:

Yeah, yeah. I’m saying I talk for myself, this is my personal view.

Michael Doran:

It’s focused on the leadership. That actually, decapitation is it was done to Nasrallah and to Hamas, and so on, is an effective strategy.

Caroline Glick:

It’s effective, but Hezbollah is trying to rebuild.

Michael Doran:

Let’s talk about Hezbollah.

Caroline Glick:

Well, you see, we’re bombing, and we’re undermining, and we’re trying to interject weapons and destroy weapons, and destroy hubs of operations that we view as a threat even the news reports coming out now are showing. They’re moving very quickly to rebuild. They have very high motivation. They’re highly motivated. They desperately want to get back into the game.

Michael Doran:

And apparently still getting money from Iran.

Caroline Glick:

Of course they are. Again, it just goes back to what I’m saying. They’re serious, they really are. They really believe this stuff. This is really what moves them in the morning. This is what they think about, this is what they pray for, and they’re not just praying. This is who they are. And you have to give them enough respect to understand that they’re serious. And yeah, Iran is broke, they got no water, and they’re giving money to Hezbollah. What does that tell you about Iran?

Michael Doran:

Right.

Caroline Glick:

It’s crazy.

Michael Doran:

Right.

Caroline Glick:

It’s like somebody addicted to gambling, only they’re addicted to murder, to war, to death, to terrorism. So, okay. So that’s not going to happen. My husband’s uncles, we were with them on October 6 in Kiryat Shmona. We bought food there for the holiday, and we went back home and we’d been on vacation the week of Sukkot in the north.

Michael Doran:

I’m sorry, I didn’t understand what you said. Your husband’s what?

Caroline Glick:

His uncles and aunts, they live in Kiryat Shmona. And then they were in turn-

Michael Doran:

On the north, on the-

Caroline Glick:

Yeah, on the northern border.

Michael Doran:

. . . border of Lebanon.

Caroline Glick:

And then the next day, October 7. And they were internal refugees for about a year living in hotels, living with their kids in the center of the country, wherever. These are old people and they’re back home. And we have no intention of allowing a situation to arise along the northern border where the citizens in those border communities are going to have to leave again, are going to be subjected to the kind of threat that we experienced on October 7. It’s just not going to happen. It just won’t. Hezbollah is trying to be tough guys and rebuild their forces with the intention of restoring the pre-war conditions along our northern border, it’s not going to be allowed. We’re not going to allow it.

Michael Doran:

Let’s talk about some of the bright spots. You already mentioned that bright shining star that is Azerbaijan. You also mentioned that President Trump is the greatest friend Israel’s ever had in the White House.

Caroline Glick:

Yes, he really is. Did you see him with the former hostages that he called heroes today in the Oval Office?

Michael Doran:

I did not.

Caroline Glick:

I managed to watch just a bit. I wish I had been invited to that, but that’s not part of my portfolio, unfortunately, but that is an amazing event.

Michael Doran:

I agree with you that he is the greatest friend, but I wonder if we could investigate that a little bit and just hear what it is that leads you to that conclusion.

Caroline Glick:

We can, but can I just add one more thing?

Michael Doran:

Sure.

Caroline Glick:

In the briefing that I gave on The Hill yesterday and today as well, I ran into this guy. One of the people attending the briefing that I gave was this Syrian immigrant to the United States who’s an Alawite. He was just gushing with appreciation for Israel. And I think one of the things that happened as a result of this war is that so many peoples of the region, particularly minorities, they see finally, in many cases, that Israel really is their friend. And that the President and the Prime Minister and the Bible talk about peace through strength. And really, I think something has shifted in the perception of many peoples of the region about Israel in a fundamental way.

And you can say as somebody who immigrated to the United States and is an Alawite, that’s not an accurate sampling of population, but I can assure you that it is. And what we’re seeing on the ground, in Syria in particular, is miraculous. The Druze of Syria, like the Druze of Lebanon and the Druze of Israel, they have a tradition because they’ve always been minorities, so they always cope with a regime. And they’re not, they’re going with Israel. There is a see change there and it’s meaningful and it’s significant and it’s really heartening. I know you want to move to Trump, and I’m not stopping you, but as we close the regional tour and Caroline’s tough talking and everything, we have to remember that we aren’t the only ones who are civilized in the region.

And we are the front line of world civilization. Doesn’t matter, Hindu, Muslim, American, European, whatever, anybody who’s civilized, that is anybody who actually values human life, if you just want to use that as a measuring rod, they’re recognizing the distinctions that maybe have been blurred over decades of not thinking about it and saying on the one hand and on the other hand, and that’s fomenting also a change. Maybe we don’t see everything right now because everything is still amorphous and we’re still very much amorphing you hear from me. But you see the beginnings of something very different and new. I don’t know what it’s going to turn out to look like, but we have to also be able to identify the shifts and the rising up of people who say, “We are on the side of civilization.”

Michael Doran:

What you’re saying, actually, it’s both heartening to me, but it makes me a little nervous, to be honest with you.

Caroline Glick:

Okay. I can see that as well.

Michael Doran:

What makes me nervous is, if we just talk about Israel, but I could also talk about it from an American point of view, but if we talk about it from an Israeli point of view, there are limits to Israeli power. Israel can’t be the guardian of all-

Caroline Glick:

We can’t be the guardians of the Alawites. The Alawites are up there. We’re not going to get there.

Michael Doran:

That’s exactly what I was . . . Exactly.

Caroline Glick:

But there’s a difference because you know what it is? I was talking about the Founding Fathers of America and the Revolution, let me just go back there again for a second. The concept of the shining city on the hill, which comes from the Bible as well, of Jerusalem being a light to the nations, which is that you are a beacon. You don’t have to go out and slay dragons. Sometimes being a beacon is enough to light the fire of freedom in other places. You don’t have to go and do things, but just by being strong and being stable and being steady, you’re keeping evil at bay. And that enables other people to be brave and strong. But we’re not going to overstretch.

Michael Doran:

The key both for you guys, but also for us, is to be steady.

Caroline Glick:

Yes.

Michael Doran:

And in order to be steady, you have to have a very clear definition of national interest-

Caroline Glick:

You’re absolutely right.

Michael Doran:

. . . that others understand too so you don’t end up inadvertently encouraging people to believe that you’re going to be there for them.

Caroline Glick:

Like the Shiites in Southern Iraq after the Gulf War. Yes.

Michael Doran:

Yes, exactly.

Caroline Glick:

And then you betrayed them.

Michael Doran:

Yes.

Caroline Glick:

No, I agree with you completely. I would be the last person on earth to make promises that we have no intention of fulfilling under any circumstance, whether in work or in family or anywhere else. But I think that it’s important though to understand that things shift, people’s perceptions of their possibilities shift. And if somebody wants to stand up for himself, that’s important. And by being steady, we’re also keeping evil at bay. If the regime in Damascus thinks that they’re going to be able to wipe off the Druze, then you have the Kurds and you have the Alawites, and you have all kinds of things that can happen. And you can have Turkish forces arrayed in Syria and threatening to invade, which is what they’re doing in theory. That could be a very bad thing. Go figure out how the Americans are going to deal with that.

Michael Doran:

That is precisely the nightmare scenario that I want to prevent. I think the United States has two priorities right now. One is finishing the job with Iran, making sure that Iran can’t rebuild its nuclear capabilities, can’t rebuild its ballistic missile capabilities, and can’t threaten the United States and its allies around the region. That conflict is not over yet. The second priority is to make sure that Israel and Turkey don’t go to war.

Caroline Glick:

That’s why it’d be a good idea not to have Turkish forces in Gaza, right?

Michael Doran:

Yes, I agree with that. I am concerned when we’re talking about the Alawites, concerned about two things simultaneously. One is inadvertently encouraging the Alawites to believe that you’re going to be there when you’re not, and secondly, inadvertently signaling to the Turks that you intend to be there, which can engender a counter-reaction from them.

Caroline Glick:

Okay. So no, neither of those things will come to pass. However, I think that it’s also important to understand that when you’re strong, even if you’re far away, you give people strength. And I think that’s very important. And I think it’s very important for us, mainly for ourselves, we have our work cut out for ourselves just securing our own borders, and we intend to do that, and that’s what we’re going to do. But all that I’m saying is when you look at the region, you see that people are recognizing that good can will out. One of the reasons that you had explosions here in America and throughout Europe and in Australia and in Canada of anti-Semitism after October 7, is that people who had been latent Jew haters, for generations apparently, but real ones, and who knew, suddenly had hope.

Michael Doran:

Oh, wow. They got excited.

Caroline Glick:

They got all excited. This was bloodlust. They thought, “Oh wow, gee, we thought that this whole genocide thing was over in 1945, but now it looks like it’s a thing again. That’s great. Fantastic.” And that is a disaster, right? Now you see these growing pains where they say, “What? It’s not a thing? It can’t be.” So they’re mad, but they’re going to have to learn to live with it. And I think on the other hand, you saw a lot of really good people saying, “Holy smokes, genocide of Jews is back again. What’s going to happen to us?”

So when they see that, oh, genocide of Jews isn’t back again, they can say, “Okay, we’re safe. All right, then we can breathe again,” because we are the tip of the spear, but other people are in the crosshairs. So if the tip of the spear is pushing it away, is kicking it away, is wrecking it, then that means that the people on the rest of the spear can breathe easy and think about how they want to organize their lives. And I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with that.

Michael Doran:

What are the-

Caroline Glick:

Certainly not, for instance, in Iran.

Michael Doran:

No, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Caroline Glick:

Because if you want to talk about regime change, which is something that nobody wants to talk about, the only regime changes that ever really work are the ones that are done by the people who live under the regime, the people who say, “We’ve had it with this.” By the way, what happened in 1979 in Iran, right? And that’s the only way you’re going to get rid of the threat of Iran because like I said, so long as this regime exists, they’re going to continue killing the Iranian people and destroying their country in order to try to destroy my country.

Michael Doran:

Despite all the troubles you have in Iran, the water, the economy, and just the general domestic situation, I haven’t seen any sign of serious cracks in the regime or an organization of people of opposition. Are you seeing anything that would give me a different impression?

Caroline Glick:

Look, there are disturbances in Iran a lot, it’s just that people are being killed. And it’s very hard to get organized when everybody who sticks his head up is put in jail and led to the gallows. I think what you’re seeing now is severe oppression, which you can expect, but I trust the Iranian people. I just think about the Mahsa Amini protests just a few years ago. People who are protesting to be able to be free in that way, they’re going to get there, I’m sure of it. I have absolute faith in the Iranian people that they’re determined to win their freedom, and nobody’s going to be cheering louder than the people of Israel when they’d manage. I don’t know what we see, what we don’t see, what’s above ground, what’s below ground. What I do know is that this people wants to be free and they’re just going to get there, I’m sure of it.

Michael Doran:

Let’s talk about some bright spots now. Let’s talk a little bit about Donald Trump and then I want to talk about a couple of others, but explain to people when you say he’s the best friend, what are the things that come to mind immediately that maybe they don’t already know?

Caroline Glick:

He respects Israel. He recognizes what it means to have an ally and that we are an ally. He realizes that an ally, you want them to win their war. It’s not that you have to contain them so that you can do other things. He doesn’t try to obfuscate what happened on October 7 and pretty it to try to reach some sort of accommodation with pure evil. Under the Biden administration, they kept trying to push us to a ceasefire that would’ve left Hamas in charge of Gaza, essentially all of Gaza, and controlling an international border with Egypt.

And they put us under arms embargo when we wouldn’t stand down and we insisted on fighting this war to victory. And the exact opposite happened. He came into office and immediately set about out filling all of the orders that had been blocked by the Biden administration and supporting us and backing us, both rhetorically and for real. What happened in June with Operation Midnight Hammer was really remarkable. It was the first time that Americans fought together with Israel and that we let it. We never had that. We’ve always had America support-

Michael Doran:

That was always a red line, actually, for Americans before now.

Caroline Glick:

There you go. And why would you do that? Why would you cross that red line? Because you see Israel as an ally, not as an asset or as a weight or whatever, as somebody for domestic political reasons, as Israel’s foes like to call us because of a domestic constituency that they have to curry favor with or whatever, that they only support us because of that, because we’re actually a burden along the lines of the Israel lobby with Mearsheimer and Walt. No, look at what we’re doing. We’re America’s only real fighting ally, and we’re good at it, and we’re brave and we love America, and you get a lot of bang for your buck. I mean, I think it was, who was it? The commander of the US Air Force who said, or I don’t know, a bunch of people said if we needed to pay for the intelligence that we received from Israel, it would be 10 times the CIA budget. And of course we share, because you’re our ally. It would never occur to us not to share.

So, it’s like for whatever reason, President Trump is the first American president who just says, “Yeah, let’s just see things. Let’s call things what they are. It’s an alliance.” And then everybody tries to mischaracterize it. Oh, Israel controls Trump. No. Oh, Trump controls Israel. No. It’s like, get your head around this concept, we’re in it together. We’re partners, we’re allies, and of course, we’re the junior partner. I mean, all you got to look at is the size. Of course, how could it be otherwise? I mean, obviously, every parameter would put you in that position, which is a great position to be in. Great Britain’s in that position.

Michael Doran:

I lost track of time I see.

Caroline Glick:

Are we done?

Michael Doran:

Well, I don’t want be done. Can I keep you a little bit longer? Beyond the-

Caroline Glick:

My next thing is at six, and you didn’t tell me where I have to go. It’s just like-

Michael Doran:

Oh, your next thing, it doesn’t matter at all.

Caroline Glick:

Yeah.

Michael Doran:

It’s like completely . . . Oh, you’re fine, you’re fine. You got lots of time. Yeah, seriously.

Caroline Glick:

But you’re exhausting me.

Michael Doran:

I’m throwing you softballs. Come on. But yeah-

Caroline Glick:

But because the hardballs are going to just fall flat, nothing’s going to happen with them.

Michael Doran:

Okay. Well, let’s just talk about you a little bit with the time that we have remaining here. So, you had some time in government before?

Caroline Glick:

Right.

Michael Doran:

You were in the military, you had some time in government before, but then you’ve been out for a while.

Caroline Glick:

25 years.

Michael Doran:

And now you’re back in and you’re back into the highest levels. So, what has surprised you the most that, you want to tell us about it?

Caroline Glick:

Surprised?

Michael Doran:

Or did anything surprise you?

Caroline Glick:

Look, I was working in the Prime Minister’s office when Netanyahu was Prime Minister for the first time. It was a junior staffer, I guess you’d say. I was assistant to the foreign policy advisor. My assistant, I don’t have an assistant now, it just seems wrong, I mean, when you think about it. Why can’t I have 27 year old Caroline?

Michael Doran:

It’s completely wrong. I agree. Why?

Caroline Glick:

Right? I mean, so it’s that-

Michael Doran:

Can we do something here to make that happen?

Caroline Glick:

I think you know. I think President Trump should call the Prime Minister and say-

Michael Doran:

But why don’t we just ask everyone who’s watching to at least write a letter? Write a letter.

Caroline Glick:

Yeah, but see, the problem is is that this is a bureaucratic thing. So, I think that the thing that I’ve been reintroduced to is living in a bureaucracy, which is frankly, no fun. You know?

Michael Doran:

Because you have a lane. And I noticed earlier you were talking, you couldn’t go to the White House because it was not in your lane. And that has to be very hard for Caroline Glick to stay in her lane, no?

Caroline Glick:

Yeah, but that’s why you have a husband to come home and scream to. But I mean, it just, no, I’m very happy with the work that I’m doing and mainly even more than what I’m doing. I mean, I enjoy working with the Prime Minister. I enjoy working for him, I enjoy having met his boss.

It was funny when I started working with the Prime Minister, my mother was with us and it was all like, it happened overnight. He had to go to Washington. I thought I was going to start in March, and he said, “You got to come to Washington,” and so just like that, my first day of work was on the Prime Minister’s airplane going to the White House. So, it was a little bit disconcerting. But I got home from Washington and I was talking to my mom and she said, “When was the last time you had a boss?” And it took me a couple of minutes, or it took me a minute, not a couple.

It took me a minute and I said, “Oh.” She said, “Who was your last boss?” And I thought I said, “Oh, Netanyahu.” The Prime Minister was my last boss in 1998 when I quit to go to grad school. He was the last person that I worked for, and now I’m back to working for him. So I guess I’ve moved nowhere in my life. 25 years later, I’m back working for the same guy, but he hasn’t moved either. He’s still Prime Minister, so.

Michael Doran:

Has he changed since the first time?

Caroline Glick:

Look, I was . . . see, you asked me that question and I can’t answer from a personal perspective because I was so junior. So it wasn’t like I was in a position to judge him, so then I become a commentator again. But all I can say is that, I mean, first of all, of course, he’s been at it for a little while. He was in his office, I came in a year in, and I stayed there for about a year and a half, and then I went to grad school. And I thought he was great, and he was.

When he was Prime Minister, we had a few suicide bombings, but the concentration of them and the frequency of the attacks went down precipitously. And the character of the Oslo relationship with the PLO changed in a way that was better for Israel when he introduced the concept of reciprocity, because I was one of the people in the negotiations as a military officer, I was coordinating the negotiations with the PLO. So, I was one of the people who drafted these stupid agreements. And I knew that they were dumb because they were being breached while we were negotiating them. And we negotiated a series of agreements and the ones that we had already concluded were being breached while we were going on to the next thing. Well, this isn’t working, why are we doing this? What are you, a member of Kahanas? I mean, it was just crazy. Anybody who was looking at reality is suddenly castigated as a radical nut job.

So, it was a terrible situation and he came in at a very difficult time. It was right after Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated. There was an enormous amount of rancor in Israel and hatred towards him personally, and by the elite, which is the same, nothing has changed, really. I guess I’m still working for him, he’s still Prime Minister and the elite still hates him. But it was a difficult place to be then, and he did a good job. He wasn’t, maybe if he were facing some of the same challenges from the same people 30 years ago, he would’ve lasted even longer. But the fact that under those circumstances which was extremely difficult, he remained in office for almost his entire term. It was pretty admirable.

Today, the Netanyahu, who since is Prime Minister, he’s immortal. I mean, it sounds crazy to say. I used to, when I was in the Army, I used to love reading Milan Kundera novels. He was a great novelist and he had a novel called Immortality. And I don’t even remember it very well, but there’s this general sense, he was talking about people who lived and they’re still sort of alive in our world today, hundreds of years later or in the case of biblical figures, thousands of years ago. And sometimes when I work with my boss, I look at him and I realize, and it’s just true, that if humanity survives thousands of years forward, people will still be writing histories that involve him. And that’s an extraordinary feeling to have. He is a reigning, he is a towering figure in our world, he’s a towering figure-

Michael Doran:

In a world in which there are very few such figures.

Caroline Glick:

Yes, he’s a towering, people compare him to Churchill but I got to tell you the truth, he’s Churchill and a Jew at the same time, it’s much more difficult and it’s a great privilege to work for him.

Michael Doran:

Okay, I’m going to give you one last question. What-

Caroline Glick:

Despite the bureaucracy, and the stay in your lane lady thing.

Michael Doran:

One last question, and then we’ll bring this to an end. And you’ve been very generous with your time, even though we do deserve it much more than the next people who are going to.

Caroline Glick:

You know I like you, but don’t tell anybody.

Michael Doran:

Okay, I won’t tell anyone. No, you like my views on Turkey too, right?

Caroline Glick:

Not so much, but I’m used to fighting with you.

Michael Doran:

Okay, so-

Caroline Glick:

It goes back a long way.

Michael Doran:

The bright spots, because we hear so much about Israel’s isolated and small, but then we read in the newspaper that Elbit has just signed its biggest deal ever. You’re not going to tell us with whom, unfortunately, are you?

Caroline Glick:

No, I actually don’t know.

Michael Doran:

Oh, okay. All right, so-

Caroline Glick:

So, I can plead total ignorance and be actually truthful this point.

Michael Doran:

But there are obviously, when you were talking about the people around the region looking and taking hope from Israel’s strength and so on, there are people in the international arena who may be saying one thing publicly but doing another one behind the scenes and so on. Who are the bright spots out there where you see that they are true friends of Israel, or the relationships are growing stronger and you’re heartened by it?

Caroline Glick:

Look, I mean, we have a wonderful relationship with India and with Modi, who’s just amazing friend to Israel. But there are a lot of countries in Asia. We have a good friend, a wonderful friend in Viktor Orban and Hungary and in many other places. And you see that they really benefit from their relationship with Israel. And it’s not just like in the old fashioned ways, oh, Israel, if you make in good with Israel, then you’ll get in good with a White House. No, I mean, they benefit just from being our allies and I think that a lot of countries are seeing that now. And just a word about us being isolated and everything, it’s a really good time to be in Israel. It’s like, first of all, Israelis are just, they’re just awesome. It’s just awesome to live in Israel and to be with Israelis. It’s just amazing.

I mean, when we look at the generation that’s been fighting for the past two years, just it’s so exciting to be living amongst them because we can’t believe we raised them. I didn’t, my kids are still in high school. My husband, my stepson was in Gaza, he’s amazing. And we’ve lost a lot of them. I mean, 12 graduates of my son’s high school are buried now, including one of the teachers. So it’s hard, but it’s also it’s awesome to be Israeli now. And plus the kids, they’re so brilliant. I mean, they come out of the army and they build all of these amazing technologies and they write these amazing songs. And I mean, because everybody talks about tech, and it’s amazing what they’re doing. I think our defense tech is just going to, anybody who’s not investing in Israeli defense technology. I’m not, but that’s because I just don’t know how to do it, but people who know how to invest-

Michael Doran:

I’m not either because I have no money.

Caroline Glick:

Well, there you go. If I had 50 cents to spare, I would try to figure out if somebody would accept my 50 cents, because pretty sure that it would turn into two dollars by the end of the week, and by the end of the month it would be 50 bucks. No, I mean, they’re so creative and they’re so smart. And whether it’s in the arts or in technology or anything else, I mean, it’s so exciting to be in Israel now and see the young people and the older people coming together and just building stuff and doing stuff that’s extraordinary. And so, there’s a lot for people to gain by being our friends.

I always said that the best . . . My philosophy on foreign affairs is very simple, it’s not deterrence, it’s not this, it’s not that. Be good to your friends, be bad to your enemies-

Michael Doran:

…that’s foreign policy.

Caroline Glick:

. . . because the people will want to be your friends and they won’t want to be your enemies. And I think the biggest problem is that people keep thinking that by being nice to your enemies, people will want to be, they’ll stop being your enemies. It’s not true.

Michael Doran:

That’s the Obama doctrine.

Caroline Glick:

If you’re good to your enemies, you’re . . . It’s not just Obama, it’s many. It’s be bad to your enemies, be good to your friends, and you make lots of friends and nobody will want to be your enemy. And I think that people are finding there’s no finer friend than Israel, there’s no steadier friend than Israel, and there’s no enemy more dangerous than Israel.

And so, I think that we’re all kind of in post-trauma because we look at things and everything, so many different things can just make you tear up because of what we’ve been through and what we’ve lost. But there’s so much to be optimistic and excited about going forward and so much to be proud of. And I think if you ask, that’s one of the things that Donald Trump is so great about, he also knows. America would be great, forever great, America should forever stand with its friends and forever stand against its enemies. With you guys, a lot of people want to be your friends. You got to be discerning, but you don’t have a better friend than Israel, the people of Israel, and I think that he gets that.

Michael Doran:

All right, well, that’s a very optimistic note on which to end. Thank you very much.

Caroline Glick:

Thank you.

Michael Doran:

Caroline. I’m your friend, not your enemy.

Caroline Glick:

You don’t want to mess with me.

Michael Doran:

Don’t want to mess with you at all. Why don’t you tell everyone out there to subscribe to Israel Update with Mike Doran and Gadi Taub, because that’s the best alternative to the Caroline Glick podcast that there is.

Caroline Glick:

All right then.

Michael Doran:

Is that you telling them?

Caroline Glick:

And eventually, I’ll be back.

Michael Doran:

You’ll be back.

Caroline Glick:

I don’t know when the Prime Minister’s going to let me get out of this racket again. I already did grad school, so I don’t know what the excuse would be, but no, they’re good guys. They are good guys.

Michael Doran:

Oh, there we go. Thank you, thank you. And thank you-

Caroline Glick:

And smart. They’re smart.

Michael Doran:

Thank you for dropping in.

Caroline Glick:

You got weird ideas about Turkey, but you’re pretty smart.

Michael Doran:

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. I’ll take that.

Caroline Glick:

All right.

Michael Doran:

Thank you very much.

Caroline Glick:

Okay.

Michael Doran:

All right.